Bird ID

[dihoekstra]

Can someone tell me what this bird is? It is very small...maybe size of chickadee or slightly larger. Much smaller than goldfinch, though.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/362045885_b0a0db3f1b_m.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/135/362045880_2ba558e97b_m.jpg

[betsy]

I've been looking, Di, but haven't figured it out yet. Views from the underside are difficult. Can you give us some help by telling us where and when you took these photographs? Maybe the geographical area, habitat & season will provide helpful clues. One thing that may surprise you -- on average, an American Goldfinch is only 1/4" larger than a Carolina Chickadee. 5" vs 4.75". I don't believe there's room for "much smaller" between 19 and 20 quarter inches!

[dihoekstra]

I took it Monday, January 8, mid morning. There's this little thicket of trees along a baseball field parking lot at Brand and Park Vista Roads in Northeast corner of Richardson. Just across the road from Breckenridge Park. Here's one more picture. I may have to go back Saturday morning and see if they are still hanging around and take a closer look. Thanks for looking! Yeah, size judgement is tough for this beginner!


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/362106996_bda412d64f_m.jpg

[betsy]

Don't worry about not being able to make a size judgement accurately, Di -- the experts tell us that they have the same problem. The main thing is to know that it's difficult to estimate size accurately and that it's therefore one of your less reliable clues, unless you can get something else of known size to compare it with.

I have an impression that your bird is in fact an American Goldfinch, in some intermediate stage of molt. Granted they should all be in non-breeding plumage at this point and their breasts should be darker, according to Sibley, but birds in fact molt over a range of times as well as a period of time, with some molting earlier and some later than the average, and there's a sequence in which feathers get molted in the period of time which simply can't be shown in a field guide. Birds generally show a range of colors as well. Field guides can give us only an average, while we're seeing individuals in all their individuality. The bill shape and color, the leg color, the eye color, the line running back from the eye, what can be seen of the wing pattern and color, and the shade of yellow on the face all seem to fit American Goldfinch at some stage of its life, but not (in combination) any of the vireos or warblers.

I find it helpful to google images of possible suspects in cases like this, to see if I can find any from a similar angle or in a similar stage of molt. Here's one that is closer (angle-wise) than most: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/nature/animals/birds/1009823_american_goldfinch.php?id=1009823

...and here's another that shows that pinkish wash next to the wing, as well as a bright white breast and belly: http://mvhunt.net/images/birds/American-Goldfinch---Female.jpg

And here's a shot from somewhere in the Cross-timbers region that bears a distinct resemblance to your bird in several respects:

http://www.ctmn.org/photogallery/goldfinch.jpg

(It's the second American Goldfinch shot on this Master Naturalist website: http://www.ctmn.org/photos.html .)

So, that would have to be my best guess at an ID for you. The bill color suggests a female.

[dihoekstra]

Thank you so much! That picture does look exactly the same. I had emailed Perry as well and he says American Goldfinch. Now, can I delete my thread? I don't like the "bad" rating. :(

[betsy]

Hmm....I hadn't yet noticed that the definition of one or two stars on a post was negative -- I'd assumed they all indicated some degree of interest or another above average interest, as they did on the old wildbirds forum (which has gone defunct). I just bumped the rating on this thread up. Personally, I don't believe there's any reason to give "bad" ratings to bird ID questions. Everyone is at a different level of expertise when it comes to identifying birds and one of the points of having this forum is to allow more experienced folks to assist the less experienced folks without making negative judgements. I'd rather you left the thread in here -- there may well be some other folks (lurkers who don't even register) who will be happy you were brave enough to post the photo and ask for the ID.

If anyone continues to be mean enough to make "bad" or "terrible" ratings on bird ID questions, I'll find out how to redefine the meanings of all the star ratings so that none of them are negative! Or I'll remove the ability to rate threads altogether.

(A few minutes later: Aha! When I bumped it up, it only went to 3 stars. Some one -- which would have to be the original voter changing their vote -- or several others have bumped it up to five stars, which shows you they want you to leave it here.)

[Perry]

I love these kinds of threads. You have no idea how many silent new birders that are not even logged as members use these kinds of threads. They see a bird, have no idea what it is, check audubon, and boom there is a thread of their bird.

Post as many of these as you can. It's the point of birding.

[lei]

I also think it's American golden finch. Last January, I took the following photo in Arbor Hills. You may find a lot of similarities between yours and mine:

http://www.pbase.com/3stones/image/55346427.jpg

[dihoekstra]

Lei, that picture is definitely the same species. I am now convinced it's an American Goldfinch. I am using the Sibley Guide to Birds. And none of the pictues were exact enough for me to feel confident about this bird. I like Betsy's idea of finding google images to see variety. And Perry, your detailed info in the email was great as well. I need to spend some time studying how to identify birds more scientifically by beak, tail, etc.

Also, have to share...this afternoon, I was telling my high school daughter that I posted a question on Bird Chat and thought someone didn't like my post and gave me this rating of two stars and how I felt embarrased, etc. She was rolling on the floor laughing at me. Too funny...

So, for the next bird I am trying to figure out, I will take a look at the picture and follow your approaches, then post it with my educated guess and see what you think. :)

[lei]

dihoekstra, I own a whole set of Sibley Guides, and sometimes I also share your frustration. Some field marks in the guides are not very accurate, especially color. That's why I bought the NG field guide when the 5th edition came out. I have used the NG field guide for several months by now and I kinda like it. Highly recommend.

[Connie Sandlin]

I have said over and over and over: "You can never have too many bird [field] guides".

The first time I ever honed in on a species of duck that was mainly brown and reminded me somewhat of a female mallard, I had to look through my EIGHT different guides until -Eureka!- I found the picture that was the best and exact representation of what I was seeing. It was a Gadwall.

Field guides have many & varied formats, and although most of them are limited to drawings/paintings or photographs, each artist represents each bird from his own perspective and perceptions. Photos, for the most part, capture a bird at a particular moment in time and lighting, except for the enhanced digitized photo work of Kenn Kaufman who strives to come up with an image that the most representative of the species. Even so, ink colors can vary with each printing. David Sibley found that to be true with his guides and each later edition has been tweaked to try to adjust for imperfections. Having multiple guides gives multiple perspectives and increases the odds of finding a match with your observation.

Of course, if you see a bird that is molting or is in an variant plumage or has some degree of albinism, that adds another layer of confusion. The Bird Chat forum in the past has helped me and others learn and share and come to conclusions (at least sometimes!) about the identity of a bird in a photo as a community, more or less. (2 heads are better than one; 20 heads are better still!)

Beyond imagery in field guides, another reason I like having multiple guides is there is considerable difference in the narrative provided for each species. Some guides will say more about the sounds a bird makes; others will give you more insight into habitat or behavior or courtship behavior.

My personal top 4 guides are:
National Geographic's new 5th Edition,
Golden Guide (which is getting worn out),
Kaufman, and
Sibley.

Reasons:
National Geo - most up to date and is great.
Golden - sentimental favorite, fits easily in a pocket, and holds my life list
Kaufman - digitized photos
Sibley - multiple paintings of species including various color morphs, juveniles, etc, plus layout, but too big to carry. I think the pages of Red-tailed Hawks make it worth the price alone!

Happy Birding,
Connie

[dihoekstra]

What great advice! I will check these guides out along with the NG guide that lei mentioned. I've got my husband on board now so he's looking at some scopes for me. Right now he has his Meade telescope focused out the back door watching a dozen or so Cedar Waxwings in a tree across the alley. They are amazing, beautiful birds!

I am about 8 months into birding and have so many questions! I'll try and space them out so I don't drive you guys crazy. I do almost all of my birding at Breckenridge Park in Richardson because it's so close to my house and I'm a busy mom so it's easy to steal a few hours to bird. I am wanting to compare what I am able to find at Breckenridge with what Perry and others are posting about Arbor Hills to see if they are similar in species. I have decided that constantly going to the same birding area may be to my benefit in learning birds and becoming familar with their habits.

Right now, I'm off to watch these Waxwings for a bit! Thanks again for everyone's help!